Friday, February 4, 2011
Tell us what you're experiencing in your HOA
I've lived in an HOA community for 2 years, and have seen how incompetent, power-hungry directors can wreak havoc on the residents. What recourse do we residents have? In Arizona not much, unless of course we happen to be an attorney or we happen to have a large sum of money to retain an attorney. Let me explain..in AZ, when one is dealing with this type of HOA Board, little can be accomplished by approaching and discussing community issues with the them, as power hungry directors are not going to listen to opposing views, so residents' other options include going to court or talking with state legislators. In our fair state these issues are dealt with in Superior court, and all who bring suit in this court are held to the same procedural standards as a practicing attorney, even those who are pro se. The bottom line is that AZ residents must hire an attorney at a substantial cost or face penalties should they not follow procedure. Penalties of course can result in substantial $$. So of course residents generally don't take this avenue. Another option is to request that our state legislators enact laws to curtail these abusive HOAs. We do have some legislators who are very responsive, but there are others who are not. I created this blog so that residents could voice their concerns, tell their stories, 'out' unresponsive legislators, commend responsive legislators, and ultimately take control of their communities once again. I'm disgusted with these 21st century gulags, and until we lose our 1st amendment rights, we can vent our frustrations here and set a course to resolve this problem. I do request that this be a civil discussion, and that facts be presented. For example if there's a particular CC&R that is being violated/abused, list it for us, then present your argument. If there's a particular legislator who's not supporting a particular law, list the law, and the response of the legislator. My time is limited, but I will post later this evening with some recent facts about a few of our legislators. Till then, tell us your story.
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The term Gulags is a tad bit extreme. Rules, yes. Tough rules, maybe.
ReplyDelete"Caveat emptor" applies. Do any buyers do research into the HOA's that they buy in to? If not, then, well, move. The rules were there before you moved in.
Now, is there room for improvements? Absolutely.
Sadly, whether it is an HOA or a small town. People just don't have the time, energy, or desire to get involved in local HOA or politics.
Arizona is an interesting state. Specially with regards to housing or homes or housing developments. This concept of HOA may have come from Florida or California. But with an HOA, many standard rules of constructing a community are avoided or skirted or abandoned.
ReplyDeleteWhere are the sidewalks? Hello! Only in rural Ameria are there places without sidewalks. People here in Arizona in some HOA's must walk in the streets.
Where are the school bus stops? Hello! Kids walking on streets to the non-existant bus stop. Standing either on private property or in the streets. How safe is it for children to stand in streets waiting for a school bus?
Private water companies. Private electric companies. Private fire departments. Fire service is NOT included in the real estate property taxes? Give me a break.
Where are the common grounds and playgrounds for the children?
Where is off street parking? Where are guest supposed to park? In the narrow streets with no sidewalks?
Who allowed all of this? Well the elected officials.
Shame on the elected county and state officials for allowing all of this.
Yep, M, the CCRs were there before I moved in, but I didn’t get a copy until AFTER I purchased my home and moved in. Did you receive a copy before you purchased your home? Of course we could discuss how many CCRs are misinterpreted, misapplied, and/or ignored at the whim of the Board of directors, but I’d like to reserve that discussion for a later time.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you though that many rules of constructing a community are avoided, skirted, and/or abandoned in many HOA communities, and I’d like to add that many municipalities have abdicated their responsibilities concerning these particular communities. For example, let’s look at the public roadway issue within HOA communities, specifically Pinal County. Are the roadways in these communities comparable to the county roads? No they’re not; in fact they’re much narrower. Many HOAs restrict parking on these county roadways, and fine those residents who park or whose guests park on these public roadways. Left unpaid these fines can result in liens being placed on the resident’s home, and the HOAs can even go so far as to foreclose on these homes. Yet these roadways are not under the HOAs jurisdiction. According to AZ Revised Statue 28-6708. Jurisdiction of streets; unincorporated town, ‘the streets of an unincorporated town are considered public highways and are under the control of the board of supervisors of the county in which the town is located. The board may designate which streets in the unincorporated towns are considered public highways and may give appropriate names to them.’ So how can the HOA fine residents for something they have no jurisdiction over? Do the HOAs have written agreements with the Pinal County BOS whereby the county has relinquished their control of these public roadways? During the January 26th state capital hearing concerning this public roadway issue, Senator Gould asked several of the speakers if their HOAs had such written agreements, and none were produced. Yet the practice continues, and the HOAs rake in the money. And tell me what recourse do the affected residents have other than to pay these unlawful fines? (Cont)
(cont.) Are our legislators doing anything to stop this unlawful practice? Yes, there are a few who are listening. On January 26th, Senator Nancy Barto introduced a very simple bill, SB 1170, to the government reform committee. The committee consists of senators Frank Antenori (Tucson), Andy Biggs (Gilbert), Steve Gallardo, Ron Gould, Lori Klein (unincorporated Anthem), Krysten Sinema, and Steve Smith (Maricopa). SB 1170 stated ‘Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, after the period of declarant control, an association has no authority over and shall not regulate any roadway for which the ownership has been dedicated to or is otherwise held by a governmental entity. ‘The following senators sponsored the bill: Barto, Antenori, Driggs, Gould, Griffin, Landrum Taylor, Allen, Klein, McComish, Pierce S, and Shooter. There were eleven sponsors; Arizona only has 30 state senators. Interestingly, two of the sponsors, Senators Gould and Klein, apparently had a last minute change of heart. Of course neither would confirm nor deny this fact however Klein went so far as to state during the hearing that the bill was a ‘waste of time’ which makes me wonder why she would waste her time to even sponsor the bill. Senator Steve Smith of Pinal County (District 23) stated that he was against the bill, but when questioned further would not state why he was against it. If I recall correctly he’s a member of the Pinal County Tea Party which makes me wonder if he truly is a member or did he just want their endorsement. Geesh, what a pathetic Tea Party member he is. Senators Biggs and Antenori appeared to be staunch supporters and expressed valid, logical arguments in support of the bill. There were two speakers from the Sun City HOA who opposed the bill even though their HOA only restricts street parking of RVs to less than 3 days; all other vehicles can park on the street anytime. Further, the Sun City HOA does not issue fines to these RV violators, only the Maricopa Sherriff’s department can issue citations to these RV street offenders.
ReplyDeleteSo we have HOAs overstepping their jurisdictions and issuing unlawful fines. We have residents who have little recourse but to pay these fines or face liens and/or foreclosures on their homes. We have a few legislators who are trying to rectify the situation. On the other hand, we have those legislators who say it’s a waste of time (Klein), those who sponsor the bill then change their minds (Klein & Gould), and those who just plain oppose the bill but won’t state their reasons (Smith). And of course we have those citizens whose only concern is how it affects them (Sun City HOA and other speakers). In all of this AZ 28-6708 is completely ignored, and Pinal County has abdicated its lawful responsibility. Ultimately the 21st century Gulag, the HOA community, is created.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Or some such wording.
ReplyDeleteIf any buyer wanted a copy of the HOA rules before buying all they had to do was ask.
I tell everyone. Hire an attorney to read all documents before signing. Buying and selling.
Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of my HOA. A bunch of idiots and bullies. But I did attend the annual meeting. And out of about 900 homes maybe 60 people showed up. And out of those 60 ten were probably board members or those running for the board. And what in God's name was a Sheriff Officer doing at the last annual HOA meeting?
I had never lived in an HOA and was unaware that their CCRs were available from the county, and I assumed that there was some oversight or that I would have reasonable recourse should I disagree; an appeal so to speak. Well that's not the case, and they are or are evolving into Gulags. If HOAs are to continue then there has to be checks and balances. AZ used to have an adminstrative type venue where residents could financially afford to fight their HOA, but one of the law firms who works for many HOA management companies fought that and it was ruled to be unconstitutional. So now to fight them a resident needs around 5 - 10 K just to retain an attorney. What I've seen from some board members is appalling, from the items you've listed to bullying, out and out lying, falsifying official documents, threatening homeowners, and mismanagement. I used to attend meetings when I was in town as well as go to meetings, helped on committees and so forth. But I eventually began to see how some of those board members are very small, power hungry, subjective imbecils who don't have a clue about the HOAs function. And it's not just me, if you Google you'll find that there's a movement in Texas for HOA Reform. Also, check AZCentral.com and there's an article in there..Feb 5th..that discusses the 12 bills that are currently before the AZ legislators. Some are really unsettling, and gives way too much control to just a few individuals which is really scary when you have apathetic homeowners which sounds like your HOA. As far as a sheriff being there..a few years ago in Az there were some HOA board members who were killed.
ReplyDelete